Believers in Christ Have Descended From Heaven

Believers in Christ Have Descended From Heaven

The scriptures teach that we are not of this world just as Messiah was not of this world. Unless the head of the body of Christ is in heaven and the rest of his body is down on earth, we too are situated in Heaven, IN Christ. Because Christ was not beheaded, the whole body of Christ is currently in heaven with him. We have descended from heaven and been sent into the world as he was.

Demigods

Most people have this idea that the bible teaches God descended from heaven and entered Mary’s womb and became a God-man. There was a belief in demigods, and the bible does say gods (fallen angels) mated with human women (daughters of men) and they bore little ‘g’ god-men children (Nephilim).

But that’s not what the bible teaches happened with Mary. The church had control over the writings for many years and the general population was unable to even read them. So, like any cult, the leader was able to tell people what they wanted the people to believe and indoctrinate them. Then, if the people were able to look at the text for themselves, they could only see what they had been told to see. They had their minds controlled to a point that all they could see was scriptures that prove the church right, versus what the actual authors were actually writing. It didn’t help that translators were either manipulative or manipulated by being brainwashed themselves and wrote their doctrine into the translations.

Virgin Birth Written Into Scriptures

Case in point, the word “virgin” should not have been used in Isaiah 7:14. The NIV version is below:

Isaiah 7:13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. 15 He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. 17 The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria.”

Maiden Not Virgin

The Hebrew word for “virgin” is Strongs’ 1330. bethulah but the word used in Isaiah 7:14 is Strongs’ 5959. almah which means “maiden” or “young girl” and does not mean “virgin”. It’s only translated as “virgin” one time and that’s because people are putting their virgin-birth beliefs into the translations rather than reading what the text says.

Isaiah’s Prophecy Fulfilled for King Ahaz

Even ignoring that, we know that this text was fulfilled during King Ahaz’s reign or else Isaiah was a false prophet when he said this would be a sign to Ahaz. For if King Ahaz was dead when the scripture was fulfilled, it would not have been a sign to King Ahaz as Isaiah prophesied that it would be. The choices are:

  1. Isaiah was a false prophet because the sign was not meant for King Ahaz
  2. Isaiah was a false prophet because the sign was meant for King Ahaz and was not fulfilled before he died
  3. The sign was to King Ahaz, and was fulfilled, so Isaiah was a true prophet

Hopefully we can all agree that Isaiah was a true prophet, and thus the sign was fulfilled during the reign of King Ahaz. There was a child born and even though he was not born of a virgin, the Jews believe him to be the fulfillment of these scriptures due to the fact that he fulfilled them.

They were not looking for a virgin to give birth and so we should not be looking for a virgin to give birth. If you think that a virgin had to give birth to God to fulfill these scriptures, then you have to accept the fact that the scripture was a sign to King Ahaz also, in a form of dual fulfillment, so you have God coming down to earth 2 times. Do you believe that a virgin gave birth to God two times? If not and you still believe that there had to be a virgin birth then, please understand that you have to say Isaiah was a false prophet for he clearly said this would be a sign to King Ahaz.

Here is a little snippet from an answer to the question concerning this scripture on hermeneutics.stackexchange.com.

…King Ahaz didn’t need a sign with regard to a future Messiah hundreds of years, hence. He needed an immediate sign that he would survive the day. The sign God promised was that there would be someone in the besieged community with the confidence and faith in God’s salvation and protection that she chose the name for her son, ‘God is with us’ i.e. ‘Emmanuel.’ People who are besieged do not normally reflect such positive attitude; knowing that at least one of his subjects believed that God would get them through this difficult time was the reassurance that Ahaz needed.

In fact, the sign was fulfilled and Ahaz saved. In the next two verses, Isaiah tells Ahaz he won’t have to wait long for military victory after receiving the sign:

‘[The baby] shall eat curds and honey by the time he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted.’ (Isaiah 7:15-16).

In the next chapter, Isaiah identifies himself as this baby’s father and tells us the result for the kingdom:

‘3 And I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son. Then the Lord said to me, Name him Maher-shalal-hash-baz; 4 for before the child knows how to call ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be carried away by the king of Assyria.’ (Isaiah 8:3-4).

Thus, the real sign to King Ahaz is that Isaiah’s child will be born quickly and before he matures (knowing the difference between good and evil and father and mother) the nations who threaten the Kingdom of Judea will be defeated. Interestingly, Isaiah’s children are specifically referred to as a ‘signs’ from God.

“Behold I and the children whom the Lord has given me are for signs and wonders in Israel.” Isaiah 8:18

King Ahaz was told to trust in God for assistance and to ask for a sign as proof that his enemies would be defeated. He is told that the sign will be the birth of a child from the young woman who will call the child (Emmanuel –עמנואל). Although this name mean ‘God is with us’ it does not mean that the child will be divine. It is very common for biblical personality to have names that include God and part of their name. For example (Daniel –דניאל) means ‘God is my Judge.’

You may also enjoy Kel from The Trinity Delusion website’s information on these passages linked to below:

Isaiah 7:14  Isaiah 9:6

No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven

What’s always been interesting to me about John 3:13 is the fact that Trinitarians use this verse to say only Jesus (Yehoshua) has ascended to heaven, therefore he descended from heaven, and pre-existed his incarnate form. That argument is not what I find interesting, but the fact that they forget that they are told one day they will be in heaven is interesting. There’s a belief in mainstream Christianity that we will go to heaven when we die. Do they not realize this verse says that they had to descend from heaven before they can ascend to heaven?

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, — the son of man which is in heaven.

The term “son of man” means human being. He’s saying you cannot ascend into heaven unless you’ve first descended from heaven, and he’s talking about sons of men, that is human beings.

From the wiki article on the “son of man” phrase: The Hebrew expression “son of man” (בן–אדם, ben-‘adam) appears 107 times in the Hebrew Bible, the majority (93 times) in the Book of Ezekiel. It is used in three main ways: as a form of address (Ezekiel); to contrast the lowly status of humanity against the permanence and exalted dignity of God and the angels (Numbers 23:19, Psalm 8:4); and as a future eschatological figure whose coming will signal the end of history and the time of God’s judgment (Daniel 8:17).

We see that Ezekiel was called “son of man” and what’s interesting is that Jesus (Yehoshua) talks about the son of man descending from heaven. What’s also interesting is he does not use the term “son of God” but rather “son of man” perhaps to make the point that it’s not just about him coming down from heaven, but about the “sons of man” that came down from heaven before he did. Now, this will make people think, because the general picture of someone “coming down from heaven, into the world” is more about the pre-incarnate Jesus (Yehoshua) descending down into the womb of Mary. But is that what the bible teaches? No.

The playlist linked to here is a great place to get some more insight into something I’m going to briefly discuss. Because it’s such a change from the normal perspective, it will probably take a couple of listens and time studying it on your own to see things clearly.

If someone has an expectation of entering heaven, they must first descend out of heaven and go into the world. So how do you, son of man, descend from heaven? The same way Jesus (Yehoshua) did.

Being Born Again From Above

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Jesus (Yehoshua) was a “son of man” born of mankind into the world. Then, at his baptism, YHWH’s Holy Spirit (that is the “Word of God“) came down and descended from heaven and entered him. The “word of God” became flesh in him. This is when YHWH said, this is my son in whom I’m well-pleased. And also the early believers had a version of Matthew that states, this was when YHWH begot Jesus (Yehoshua).

Begotten At Baptism

From JesusWordsOnly: After saying many things, this Gospel continues: “After the people were baptized, Jesus also came and was baptized by John. And as Jesus came up from the water, Heaven was opened, and He saw the Holy Spirit descend in the form of a dove and enter into Him. And a voice from Heaven said, ‘You are my beloved Son; with You I am well pleased.’ And again, ‘Today I have begotten You.’ “Immediately a great light shone around the place; and John, seeing it, said to Him, ‘Who are you, Lord? And again a voice from Heaven said, ‘This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.’ Then John, falling down before Him, said, ‘I beseech You, Lord, baptize me!’ But He forbade him saying, ‘Let it be so; for thus it is fitting that all things be fulfilled.’” (Epiphanius, Panarion 30.13.7 p.142)

John, realizing that Jesus (Yehoshua) was born from above, wanted him to baptize him, rather than the other way around. I wish we had this gospel, but it’s been lost to us. I wonder if the reason for this being taken out was to push the idea that he was “born from above” at his birth from Mary, instead of being “born from above” at his baptism. John 1, discussing when the “Word” became flesh, is all about his baptism, that’s why John the baptist, is mentioned. The book of John doesn’t have anything about Jesus’ (Yehoshua’s) birth from Mary. That’s not really important in the scheme of things anyway, since he died to that life, as we are to die to that fleshy/worldly life, when we are born again from above.

Jesus (Yehoshua) is basically saying the same thing in John 3 to Nicodemus, it’s all about being “born again,” “born from above,” “descending out of heaven” in order to get into heaven that is “the kingdom of God”.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Unless YHWH’s Holy Spirit has descended from heaven to enter us, we have not been born again, born from above, and we cannot see the kingdom of God, that is we cannot ascend into heaven. If you do have YHWH’s Holy Spirit, you have descended from heaven, and thus can see the kingdom of God (or ascend into heaven).

We’re Currently In Heavenly Places

Paul does a lot of talking about how we’re one with Christ, situated in heavenly places currently. The bride of Christ becomes one with the husband, they become one body, and we are one spiritual body. Those born of God doth not commit sin, because they are born of God (1 John 3:9). We see all throughout scriptures the fact that those who sin are outside of the kingdom gnashing their teeth.

Was Christ the first “son of man” to descend into heaven? Supposedly Enoch walked with God and then God took him. When Jesus (Yehoshua) got transfigured, Moses and Elijah were with him. Seems like others had already ascended into heaven, which means they had to descend first.

Remember Christ’s body did not descend from heaven, his body was formed in Mary (not formed in heaven). What descended from heaven? YHWH’s Holy Spirit descended from heaven. Even if you think it happened at his conception, in both cases, it was YHWH’s Holy Spirit that descended from heaven, not a fleshy body that descended. Yet he said his body descended from heaven. In the same way our flesh did not descend from heaven, but when we are born again, the “word of God” (YHWH’s Holy Spirit) becomes our flesh, and we can then say we’ve descended from heaven. How else did you expect to get into the heavenly kingdom?

We Are Sent Into the World

Jesus (Yehoshua) prays to his Father about his followers and says they are not of this world in the same way he’s not. They are also sent into the world in the same way he was. He told his disciples to baptize people in his name/authority. In this way he sent many into the world born “from above”. Those he sent “from above” into the world through baptism are those who can ascend into heaven, since they had already descended from heaven and got sent into the world like he did.

John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

Some people like to use John 8 where Jesus (Yehoshua) tells some Jews that they of this world, to say we’re not like Jesus (Yehoshua), ourselves. Christ was speaking to the Jews who wanted to kill him throughout this chapter. He even says it’s in relation to that.

John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. 22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come. 23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am (the light of the world), ye shall die in your sins.

Those who believe Jesus (Yehoshua) was the son of God, the messiah/prophet, would believe what he spoke, for he spoke FOR YHWH. If you listened to him, you heard from YHWH, and would live. However, If you did not accept YHWH’s prophets/message/doctrine, then you would die in your sins. If you accepted YHWH, you would be born again from above;  if you did not accept YHWH’s words (that Jesus (Yehoshua) spoke for YHWH), then you would die and not understand what Jesus (Yehoshua) is talking about. He’s saying the same thing in John 3 to Nicodemus. If you are not born from above you cannot see and know of heavenly things, you cannot enter the kingdom of God. They are from beneath, since they are born of the world, and haven’t died to that life yet.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but He sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Notice he’s speaking of them being born from beneath (the “devil”). He’s making the connection to who you are born from. If you’re born from above, you have God’s seed (YHWH’s Holy Spirit) inside, but if you’re born from below, you have the “Serpent Seed” (Anti Christ spirit) inside. Those born of the “devil” cannot enter the kingdom of God. Those born of God are not of this world in the same way Jesus (Yehoshua) was not of this world, they have descended into this world from above.

Jesus (Yehoshua) referred to his followers as “gods” who have been sent into the world, to speak for him as commanded, just as he was sent into the world to speak for YHWH.

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